What If Strength Looks Like Vulnerability

A phone notification at a red light told Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds something he never expected to read: “clinically significant prostate cancer likely.” He’d just completed an Ironman and felt in the best shape of his life, which makes his story a gut-punch reminder that fitness and health are not the same thing. We talk through what happens after the shock, including the anxious “valley” between diagnosis and a real treatment plan, and why routine screening and preventive care matter even when you feel fine. 

Jeffrey is also a longtime leader in addiction recovery, mental health services, and community support, and that perspective changes the way he talks about suffering and healing. We get into growing up around alcoholism, how risk can be both genetic and social, and why parents have to push through the discomfort and tell the truth to their kids. He explains how endurance training teaches you to get comfortable being uncomfortable, then connects that lesson directly to cancer survivorship, resilience, and the quiet strength of vulnerability when you’re forced to become the person asking for help. 

The conversation also covers his second diagnosis: stage 3B colorectal cancer, plus chemo, radiation, and a clinical trial. Jeffrey shares what “no evidence of disease” really means, how he used movement and humor to protect his mental health during treatment, and how his relationship with his wife and children deepened through honest communication. If you care about resilience, prostate cancer screening, colorectal cancer awareness, caregiving, and building grit without losing your humanity, this one stays with you. ( JeffreyReynolds.com and EveryMileMatters.com. Also, he is on all socials. )

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Transcript

Welcome From Long Island

Chris 0:01

Today's guest is Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds. Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds is an Iron Man triathlete, two times cancer survivor, best-selling author, and keynote speaker. Let's give a warm welcome to Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds. Hello, hello, hello.

Jeff 0:24

Good morning. Thank you so much for having me on.

Chris 0:27

Thank you for taking some time out to be a guest here on Glass Half Full. We're so happy to have you today.

Jeff 0:34

Yeah, I'm excited for our conversation.

Chris 0:36

Thank you. Can you tell everyone where you are in the world and what time it is, please?

Jeff 0:42

Sure. Right now I'm based in based in New York on Long Island, so not in New York City, about 60 miles outside of uh New York City. It's uh 10.02 in in the morning on a beautiful Sunday.

Chris 0:55

Yes, we love that. Yes, New York. Hey. Is it what is it like hot now?

Jeff 1:02

It is not hot now. In fact, people here used to complain that there's no transition from spring to summer. Well, we get that transition this year. And so it is only about 60 degrees. We had 90 degree weather, I guess, about two weeks ago. And so the predictability of the weather has gone out the window. It's about 60 degrees, which is great for those of us who uh who like to go out and run. So this is perfect running weather outside. So not so perfect for sunbathing, going to the beach, that kind of thing, but perfect for running.

Chris 1:34

There it is. There it is. Well, nice. Good for y'all, for the runners and the people who are not to have a little bit of cooler weather. When it gets hot, it's gonna be hot, that is for sure. Excellent. Well, we're gonna jump right in. I like to ask all my guests this first question. I believe that our lives are in spiritual design. Can you share your life layout or blueprint with everyone? This is how you grew up, where your family lifestyle up until today. Yeah, so that's a pretty uh We're gonna give the brief, just get the brief, the general. We're gonna go back in.

Jeff 2:08

Yeah, so so I can give you that. So I grew up in uh in a suburban community outside of New York City. It's called Holtzville, for those of you in the in the states, home of the Internal Revenue Service, where they collect all your tax money and hopefully put it to good use. Um went to high school there, went to college, all all three schools I went to for college, my bachelor's degree, my master's, my doctorate were all here on Long Island. So quite frankly, never left. You know, one of the things that that I always think back on is when I was in the ninth grade, I had a a teacher

A Blueprint From Service Work

Jeff 2:46

who said to me, Reynolds, you're gonna either turn out really good or really bad. And I don't know which it's gonna be. And the fact that I remember those words so many years later, I suppose, speaks volumes about the power of the statement. But at the same time, it was also, I think, a little bit of a challenge. So, right out of college, I worked in health and human services, specifically in sex crimes and domestic violence, working with victims. I spent 19 years working in the field of HIV and AIDS, dealt with some of the early diagnosed folks outside of New York City, started some of the first support groups for people living with HIV and their families. Wow. Then went on to work for a uh a drug and alcohol focused nonprofit organization. So addiction and mental health is a big part of what I do. And today I lead a large organization, 360 staff, an annual budget of about $30 million. It's called Family and Children's Association here on Long Island. We serve about 35,000 Long Islanders per year. Some in the addiction, treatment, and recovery space, some in the mental health space, the aging space. And so we do a little bit of everything. And one of the things that I always noticed people say to me, Well, how did you get into all of that? And I think people involved in social work or health and human services say, Well, I'm just a people person, you know, that's that's a little bit that's a little bit dishonest. And so I was pretty about the fact that I did not have an easy childhood. I had a family in which Child Protective Services was actively involved. Okay. Um, and I think, you know, getting through and surviving those years really helped me to understand the benefits, just a little bit of help, and a little bit of help goes a long way. And so, you know, I didn't consciously say, well, I'm gonna give back and make sure my life is focused on on helping folks who could use that helping hand. It did just happen that way. And, you know, now I get certainly a lot of sustenance and and support and I think redemption from doing this work day in and day out.

Chris 4:53

I love that. Now, let me ask you. Now, did you grow up in a home where there was drug addiction or there was some type of addiction that was happening?

Jeff 5:01

Yeah, yeah. There were there was there was alcohol. And look, at least here in the States, the rate of addiction is just skyrocketed through the roof. And and these days, you know, there are all sorts of new drugs on the street that are high potency drugs. There are all sorts of new process addictions that are emerging. You know, here in the States, the proliferation of sports betting has just taken off and created a whole new class of folks who can't watch a football or a baseball game without, you know, betting on pretty much everything, you know, beyond simply what the score is going to be and who's gonna win, right down to what color is the Gatorade gonna be that they pour on the winning coach. And so we live in an environment with social media and technology and gambling and designer drugs and stuff that I think make addiction just so much more common. Alcoholism was a big

Growing Up Around Alcoholism

Jeff 5:54

factor in in my family's life. And as much as we talk about fentanyl and emerging drugs, alcohol still kills more people worldwide than any other drug. And so it's the old standby, and it's the old standby for folks that don't have really good access to mental health care. And so, so yeah, it would if it played a role in in my life. It I think it changes kids, it changes who you are without care. The good news is, you know, I think here in the States and and in most other places, access to care is greater than it's ever been with the advent of telehealth or the advent of medications and pharmaceutical interventions. And, you know, the good news is, you know, today, if today's like any other day, there are millions of people worldwide that'll find a path to recovery and and be able to reclaim their lives.

Chris 6:43

Oh nice. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your truth about that. Now, just a general question, you know, uh with dealing with addiction, was it something that you were able to avoid because you grew up in that type of home, even though you were working with in this industry? Was it something that was you were able to avoid in your life?

Jeff 7:07

So far, yes. And and the reason I say so far, yes, is you know, the reality is that kids who are born into homes that have been impacted by addiction, you know, have have a predisposition. And the predisposition certainly is genetic. We know that addiction runs in families. It's also social, right? And so when you grow up in that environment, you are predisposed to addictive behaviors or things at the stage for subsequent addiction. So kids that are born into those households, you know, almost have, you know, almost have I equated to I I have I have three kids. One is an adult, so one is on the cusp of being an adult, and the other thinks he's an adult. Um with all my kids, I say, look, you know, it's it's starting to an allergy. You know, we we have family roots that that have addiction kind of running through those roots. And it's something that we have to be aware of, we have to be on guard about, we have to look for this early signs and symptoms. And, you know, it's something just we need to be really careful about. So I was always, I think, hyper-vigilant about that and kind of looking for the signs and symptoms. Working in the space gives me access to folks who are struggling day in and day out. And as I ask them questions about their alcohol use, their cannabis use, things like that, you know, I'm always doing this soul searching myself to make sure that I'm I'm staying in the place I need to be in terms of safety and health.

Chris 8:35

No, that's great. And that's great that you are keeping your kids aware. You know, sometimes the parents don't stay because they don't feel comfortable about talking about it or whatever. So at least that the children can be aware of what's going on in their family history about what's happening so that everyone can be on the same page. Because awareness is the key, you know.

Jeff 8:52

It's an important conversation. It's it's too important to dodge, and quite frankly, you know, our kids' lives depend on it. Have the conversation, suck it up. It's gonna be uncomfortable. So true, suck it up.

Chris 9:03

It is gonna be uncomfortable, but that's okay. We we grow, we grow when we're in the uncomfortability being vulnerable. So nice. Okay, so let me ask you why do people call you the Iron Man triathlete?

Jeff 9:19

Yeah, so an Ironman triathlon is uh quite frankly the longest day in sports. It starts with 2.4 mile open water swim, generally in the ocean. Oh, wow. Uh then moves to a 112-mile bike ride, and then finally a full 26.2 mile marathon. Wow. Uh you have 17 hours to complete it. If you don't complete it in 17 hours, you are disqualified. Wow. And so I I started out kind of running 5Ks and 10ks, then moved to half marathons. That wasn't enough. And I moved to to full marathons and did, you know, 15 of those. And then how long is the full marathon? 26.2 miles.

Chris 10:06

Oh, that's okay. That's the full. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff 10:08

So that so then, you know, then I was like, all right, so there's this thing called triathlon.

Inside Ironman Training And Discipline

Jeff 10:13

We actually do three sports instead of just one. So it's not just running, it's the three sports. And there too, I built up in the distance and the ultimate, you know, pinnacle of of triathlon is being able to complete an an Iron Man. I did it in in uh really as part of a midlife crisis, I think, and and as a way of saying, look, I'm still here, I still do hard things. You know, it's it's a year's worth of training. It's not something you just pick up and say, you know what, I'm gonna go do this today, you know, the way you would a 5K. It's something that involves, you know, a fair amount of planning, a fair amount of training. You know, you've got to have a little bit of luck on your side because the elements will do everything they can to block you from meeting your goal. And, you know, once you do it, you you claim the title forever. I had done several half Ironmans leading into this, so I knew exactly what I was getting into. But, you know, really again, the the longest day in sports. And for me at midlife, it was, you know, a real test. Can I can I do this? Can I get it done? Can I set myself up and maintain the discipline to do really hard things and and come out the other side?

Chris 11:23

How old are you at this time for this triathlon?

Jeff 11:26

Uh I guess I was early 50s. I'm 59 now. I guess I was early 50s. I did it in in November of 2021.

Chris 11:35

Okay.

Jeff 11:35

So so really, really mid midlife. And so in there, that's something people generally do in their 50s. It's something that you know skews younger because you've got to be a little bit nutty to do this, you've got to have the time to be able to do it. It's not a cheap sport because everything you have to buy begins to, you know, accumulate. And so, really, for me, it was it was a test that ultimately became a testament to to what was possible, what I was still able to do.

Chris 12:07

This is it. So let's talk about what is what happened. What what, as I can say for yourself, has made you a surviving champion in your life.

Jeff 12:21

Yeah, so I was it was the following April. I finished Iron Man Florida in 2021. Uh, was feeling good, was quite frankly in the best shape of my life. Went in for a routine physical exam in in March of that year. Didn't really think anything of it, just as an athlete and someone who's, you know, of the age, you kind of go get checked out. You actually want a doctor to say, you should be doing things like this, and then hopefully you won't die, kind of thing. And so yeah, I get checked up pretty regularly and that kind of thing. And so I had gone in for that routine physical. And then on April 1st of 2022, I am driving down the highway. I'm going to a dentist appointment. I get a notification on my phone. It says log into your healthcare portal. I get to a traffic light and I log into my healthcare portal and I scroll through pages of medical jargon that I don't really understand that

A Prostate Cancer Diagnosis On The Road

Jeff 13:22

well. And then I get to the punchline, and the punchline says clinically significant prostate cancer likely. And I'm just in a state of shock. Cars are beeping behind me. The traffic light. Oh Lord. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm I'm reading all this, and you know, it's April 1st is April Fool's Day here in the States. And so I'm like, this must be a joke. A joke, right? This can't be real. They must have mixed my records up. You know, and and when I had to be fair, it didn't, the journey didn't start. It started with that routine physical, you know, a couple weeks earlier. My doctor has said, look, you know, your your counts are a little bit high. I don't think it's anything. I'm not worried about it. You put your body through the mill. It's probably just that, but let's get this checked out just to be on the safe side. And so, you know, I then got kind of thrown into this world where I became one of, you know, two million Americans a year who will hear the words you have cancer for the first time. And, you know, it's just it's a life-changing kind of thing, especially for me, because you know, it's easy to confuse fitness and health. I was very, very fit. I was in the best shape of my life ever. And, you know, it doesn't mean that something can't happen to you health-wise. And so it did. And so, you know, folks who have gotten that diagnosis or any other serious medical diagnosis know that there's a little bit of a valley between the time you're told you have the disease and the time you're able to put a treatment plan in place. And for me, that was a time of Googling every term in my medical chart, you know, Googling, that was before really ChatGPT and Claude and AI. And I was Googling, you know, what are the average survival rates for somebody with prostate cancer? Turns out the the survival rates are actually pretty high, and that most men, before they die, will wind up with prostate cancer, but they'll die with it rather than from it. And so there have been lots of high-profile deaths of actors and musicians and just everyday average people. But generally, you don't die from this as long as it's picked up early. And so I went through that valley. We came up with a treatment plan. I had surgery to remove the cancer in July of that year, and you know, quite frankly, by all counts, you know, was back. I couldn't run for eight weeks, but I walked more than 200 miles in those eight weeks. And then I went on to run the New York City Marathon that November.

Chris 15:53

This is still in the same year. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, okay, Iron Man. All right. You you can sit down, huh? You like, let me let me give it all back up. All right, wow.

Jeff 16:05

Well, yeah. So it's all about, you know, how do I get, how do I stand up again? And and I will say one of the things, and probably some of your listeners can relate to this, you know, for me, there's a physical benefit to endurance sports, but there's also a psychological and mental health benefit to exercise generally. And for me, endurance sports in particular. And one of the things that I learned during triathlons, even during marathons, really is you could get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And so during those races, you notice what you're experiencing, you notice the pain, you notice kind of the argument happening between your legs and and your brain, for example. And you're able to work that through and just keep going. And those are skills that work really well in life, they work great out in the road, but your ability to train yourself along those lines really you know tees you up to deal better with challenges that come your way. So come your way. So when I signed up for Iron Man, I had no idea that I was actually training for the race of my life that had nothing to do with swimming, biking, and running, and everything to do with a serious disease. So I I go run the New York City marathon. By then I had become an evangelist for routine screening because I had no symptoms whatsoever. I was feeling well.

Chris 17:29

And you had done chemotherapy and radiation at this time after the or so no, so this was the first round. Okay, so they just did the surgery, they took removed everything, and then that was it.

Jeff 17:39

And then, like, right? So I'm out there banging a drum, telling every guy I can speak to, go get checked, go get checked, go get checked. You might have no symptoms, everything might be awesome. Oh, that's good.

Chris 17:50

Yeah, tell them.

Jeff 17:52

I actually did a you know, a public service announcement for a large cancer charity saying go get checked. If you know, if I'm young and it's fit, fit, it can happen to anybody kind of thing. And I took some of my own advice and the following year went in for a colonoscopy and just you know, another physical to make sure I should be doing all the things I'm doing, come out of that colonoscopy, and learn that I in twice in 14 months had another cancer. And so I had back-to-back cancer diagnosis. When I woke up from that colonoscopy, the doctor told me that he had identified a large mass. That large mass turned out to be stage three B colorectal cancer.

Chris 18:35

Oh my gosh.

Jeff 18:36

You know, stage three B is awkwardly close to stage four. Um, and so, and and there is no stage five. And so, you know, then you know, thrown back into this whirlwind of, you know, what do I do? How do I access care? What does this mean? And one of the things that became very, very clear is the survival rates look different for stage three B colorectal cancer than they do for

Colorectal Cancer And Treatment Whirlwind

Jeff 19:04

prostate cancer. And so once again, I get this life-changing diagnosis. I'm like, how can I get two cancers in 14 months? Are you kidding me?

Chris 19:12

And they they're they're in the same area and but they're not related or are they related?

Jeff 19:19

That's exactly right. They are in the same area, they're both below the belt, but they are uh they're not connected, they're not related. There's been a lot of studies to say, is there a connection between these two things? And all of the available data in science says there's just not. And I will say I pushed my oncology team quite a bit to say, guys, like you we have to get to the bottom of this. Like, how did this happen? I went for extensive genetic testing to ensure that there wasn't kind of a busted DNA bracket or something that was driving all of this, and you know, all my genetics came back fine, thankfully for my children's sake, everything was good. But you know, they chalked it up and said, bad luck. We don't know what else to tell you. And so in in that instance, I instance I did have chemo and radiation. I was part of and still part of a clinical trial. I had 27 rounds of radiation, 35 rounds of chemo. And you know, the punchline is I've got two years where they found no evidence of disease. They don't use the term remission anymore. They're a lot more guarded about it and say we see no evidence of disease right now. But you know, for two years, I have been in the clear. So right now, here today, it looks like the treatment was I'm surviving. I am back to exercising and doing my thing. I did a 70.3 mile race last fall. I ran up all 1,579 steps of the Empire State Building last October as part of a uh cancer fundraiser. You know, I'm back out racing this year. I'm doing the New York City Marathon this year. And so, you know, I'm back to living my life. One of the things that it kind of fools people is doctors now use that term, no evidence of disease, NED. And yeah, it's really a misnomer because cancer and the treatment that goes along with it comes with a lot of lasting evidence. And so whether it's the side effects of chemo and radiation, of which there are there are many, and and they still linger two years out, but there's also a whole lot of good things, right? And so, you know, cancer teaches you a boatload of gratitude, right? I'm grateful to be here, I'm grateful to be able to do all the things that that I'm able to do. It changes your relationship with the people around you, it changes the way you view yourself, it changes your relationship with your higher power, however, you decide to define that. But something like this forces. You to define that very, very clearly. And so there's plenty of evidence left behind. It's not all negative. Some of it's actually really positive. And that's some of what I wrote about in a book I did talking about how triathlon training really prepared me for a race that I never signed up for. And some of the principles of triathlon training, the discipline, the grit, the perseverance, the gratitude, you know, all of that positioned me to get through treatment not once, but but twice. And face, you know, in especially in the second case, a life-threatening medical condition.

Chris 22:37

This is it. This is every mile matters, right? Are we talking about your book?

Jeff 22:42

Yes. Yeah. So published, published last year, you know, the title is apt because you you come to understand that all of those miles matter. I can recall, and I use a triathlon coach who keeps me accountable and that kind of thing. And I think we all need accountability partners in our life. But, you know, I would say, you know, I've got to go run five miles today. And I remember sitting in the infusion room when I was getting chemo back then and watching people run outside. And they were like hospital staff out on their break. And I was sitting in an infusion room shivering under a blanket as you know, I got pumped full of, you know, a toxic substance that hopefully was less threatening than cancer. And, you know, thinking, boy, what I wouldn't give to be out there running instead of sitting here. And I exercised through chemo. I didn't go run five miles. It was more of like a run

Exercise During Chemo And New Gratitude

Jeff 23:37

walk, but I made sure that I exercised, A, to preserve my mental health, but B, because all the science says chemo works better if you keep things moving through your body. And then now when I go out to run, it's not I have to, it's I get to.

Chris 23:51

And so it's a different appreciation for it.

Jeff 23:54

Yeah, yeah. It's a privilege. And I'm doing things that that not everybody can do because they've got a medical condition, because they've got other priorities, because they've got to work three jobs, whereas I don't, whereas they might have little kids and they can't go run. And, you know, as soon as we wrap up here today, I'm going out to run for 90 minutes. And it's really a privilege to be able to do that. And so, you know, it really changed my outlook on the things I get to do. So many people walk around, I think, saying, Oh, I've got to clean my house today, I've got to go to work, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, I've got to go to my kids' game. Let me tell you, there's a lot of people who would kill to have their own home or kill to have a great job where they needed to show up to every day and have that kind of purpose and meaning. There's lots of folks who are dying to have children and would kill for that opportunity. And so lots of things that we complain about are things that other people, you know, are pretty envious of and would love that same opportunity. And cancer just reframed a lot of those things for me.

Chris 24:58

I love that. I love that. I want to ask you, many people see athletes as physically strong, but your story highlights emotional endurance. How do you define true strength today?

Jeff 25:12

Yeah, so I think one of the things that I learned early on in triathlon is that you can try to muscle your way through a triathlon. You can, you know, thrash your way through the water, you can, you know, mask the pedals on the bike and keep it in a really high gear and power through. You could stomp your way through a marathon, but that's not the way to get it done. And in doing it that way, you waste a heck of a lot of energy. You know, I I I live on Long Island, so I'm surrounded by water. I see fish and other marine life move through the water and they're gliding. And so when I think about my swimming, I should be gliding along the surface, not thrashing my way through on the bike.

Redefining Strength Through Vulnerability

Jeff 25:59

There are easy ways of doing a 112-mile bike ride, and then there are harder ways of doing the 112-mile bike ride. A couple of years ago at the New York City Marathon, I was fortunate enough to watch the elite runners take off. And let me tell you, none of them were stomping their way through 26.2 miles. They were gliding. And so one of the things about strength is that it requires different approaches. Sometimes, yeah, it's stomping your way through something. Sometimes it's gliding your way through something, sometimes it's taking a moment and thinking through the very, very best strategy. But white knuckling your way through life is not necessarily the best way to do it. The other thing that became really clear to me, in part because I had no choice in the matter, is when you've got a serious disease, you're incredibly vulnerable. Right. So, you know, for me, it was the first time being on the other side of the desk for 30 some odd years. I'm the guy that helps people fix their problems. If you've got a kid that's addicted to heroin, you call me. If you've got, you know, a teenager who's suicidal, you call me and I get you to the very best care. If you've got an aging parent who's struggling to stay in their home and need case management services, those are the type of things I help with. Suddenly, the guy who has all the answers is Googling his test results. And, you know, I'm studying the face of my oncologist to see if he's telling me the truth as he explains what treatment's going to look like. And so very humbling to be on the other side of that. And it requires a certain amount of vulnerability as you as you go through the process. And if you decide that you're going to continue to be the know-it-all and the guy that's always got this handled, even though you might, it's it could be a lonely journey. And so you find ways to to get humble, to, to show that vulnerability. You know, my relationship with my male friends changed pretty dramatically through all of this. Just creates a whole new appreciation and level of connection with the people around you. And so, you know, we always kind of pit, you know, strength against vulnerability and say those are at at opposite ends of the spectrum. They're actually not. Vulnerability is a quiet strength. And it's the ability to reach out and connect to others. It's the ability to say, I don't have all the answers, but I'd like to get them. And it's the ability to just sit and hold some space with folks who might be going through the same thing.

Chris 28:38

Nice. So true. So, so true. Let me ask you, as someone who has spent 30 plus years working in addiction recovery, mental health, and community development, how did your own health battle deepen your understanding of suffering and healing?

Jeff 28:57

Yeah, I think it was, you know, the first time that I was on the other side of the equation and the guy that's looking for help as opposed to the person who is offering it. And you know, I don't think we always, at least I didn't always appreciate, you know, what it takes for somebody to ask for help. But I've walked in their in their deepest, darkest moments. And like I said, I run a fairly large organization. And I think sometimes we lose sight of what it takes for a person to pick up the phone and make that call and say, I don't, I'm at my wit's end, I don't know where else to turn, or you know, to knock on the door or to make an appointment to come in for counseling. And it just takes, you know, the odds are that person

What Asking For Help Really Takes

Jeff 29:42

has picked up the phone and put it back down a half a dozen times before they finally decide to ask for help. And one of the things that reinforces for me is the incredible importance of getting that right because that person may not, if you don't respond in the right way, that person may not ask for help a second time. And we know that in some instances, that means a completed suicide, it means a fatal overdose. You know, it can mean all sorts of things. And so it just for me deepened that sense of when people come asking for help, you need to meet them where they're at, rate then and there. Help needs to be able to be available on demand. It can't be, you know, make an appointment for the next Wednesday at 11 o'clock. It's got to be, you know, how best can I help you? And, you know, also understanding that people are at various stages and in their willingness to change. And you know, lots of the folks that I deal with are using substances, drugs, or alcohol on a regular basis. And although I would love for them to stop, that's not everybody's journey. And so, you know, I'm gonna meet you where you're at and talk to you about ways that you can minimize the damage to your health and minimize the impact on the people around you if you're going to continue to use substances. You know, if if if you're not ready to move out of your home and you don't necessarily have enough money to sustain that, you know, we're gonna come up with a plan to make sure that you stay safe until such time as you're ready to move to a skilled nursing facility or or move to a place that might be more affordable, that kind of thing. And so I think it deepened my respect for people's, you know, personal journeys, deepened my understanding that when people ask for help, they sometimes don't ask twice. That just deepened my my love for being in the helping profession. And, you know, I thought more than once, look, if if this is it and it's my time, I'll rest my head on the pillow, knowing that you know I helped a lot of people along the way.

Chris 31:41

I love that. Great answer. Great answer. What surprised you the most about yourself during your recovery process?

Jeff 31:51

I feel I had a lot of things worked out in my mind. Right. So generally by the time you hit midlife, you've kind of sorted out, you know, what you believe about God, what you believe about what happens to you when you die, you know, how you perceive your relationships, what you want, what your legacy has been, what you want it to be, and then what it's been. And you know, going through something like this, you know, the tense around legacy changes. It becomes, you know, it goes from what my legacy to be to, oh, if this is it, what has it been? Right. And that that like happens like in a moment's notice. That's not a gradual turn. You know, and so diagnosis kind of accelerates that that shift. But it it it prompts a second look at at a whole bunch of things, you know. In the book, there's a chapter on how cancer changes you spiritually, and it was it was the hardest chapter

Spiritual Reckoning And Deliberate Discomfort

Jeff 32:46

to write. It actually held up the book for a little while, and so the early chapter just came quickly. Why did it hold up the book? Because yeah, I needed to wrestle with a lot of stuff.

Chris 32:56

Okay, and so I I I So you weren't ready to write it out, or you weren't you hadn't dealt with it yet, and that's why you weren't.

Jeff 33:02

Yeah, I don't think I fully answered it, right? So, you know, I so and I don't know, you know, you think about I think, you know, along the way, you think about what you believe about what happens, for example, when you die. What do you think happens when you die, right? Where do you think you go? What do you think happens to you? Do you believe in heaven, hell, that kind of thing? And I think as as you know, we wrestle with those questions sometimes, but for me, I never fully answered some of that stuff. And, you know, I needed to work through some of those issues and say, what is it that I believe, right? What is it I believe about God? What is it? What is it that I believe about a higher power? How do I define those things? And before I could write about them, I just had to resolve some things in my mind in order to be able to write about them with some authenticity. And I don't know that I came to, you know, all of the you know grand answers that I had hoped for, but I had a lot of work to do in my spiritual life. And so, you know, writing the chapter got me there. And there was a point where I actually contemplated, I'm like, well, nobody knows this chapter is even supposed to be in the book. I can just put it aside. I'll just finish the book, leave the chapter out, and move on. And to me, that felt like, you know, Miley Tina, the marathon when things get tough, that it'd be like jumping on a subway or a scooter and and missing out the hard part. Like I had to walk through that hard part in order to say, I did this. And, you know, that hard part is where you find the growth. I always say to people, comfort kills you. And so finding a way to embrace that discomfort, to work through some uncomfortable things, to struggle with them, that's part of the journey of life. And if you avoid those moments, then you avoid all the really good stuff. And so I, you know, I completed the chapter, I left it in. You know, the chapter does say, I don't think I resolved all the questions, but I got a little bit closer to them. The other thing that, you know, cancer or any other serious thing does is it forces you to be alone with your thoughts. And, you know, soon after my diagnosis the second time, I have a very supportive family, very supportive wife. I have a close network of friends, I have access to the best medical care in the world right outside of New York City. You know, I still felt incredibly alone. And I thought to myself, like, why is that? Well, because they're not all dealing with the same diagnosis, right? And but that wasn't that wasn't it. You know, a diagnosis like this really forces you to look at yourself. And so, you know, you feel a little bit lonesome, and then you realize, well, because it's just you looking at yourself back in the mirror, and it forces you to take that inventory about the way you've lived your life, the things that matter, the things that really don't matter. And it makes you come to that reckoning.

Chris 35:55

Yeah, you're right. This is it. It's uh it's uh come right up to that point of it. This is the truth of it. Let me ask you if you could sit down with the version of yourself before the diagnosis, what would you say to him now?

Jeff 36:13

Buckle up, things are about to go. I think that would be a part of it. You know, I you know, I've I've tried to kind of put everything into perspective. And one of the things that I've been able to do is to kind of fit the pieces together. Right. So for years I said, you know, why did I have a rough childhood? Well, I had a rough childhood so I could help people. Why did I decide to, you know, do an Iron Man? Well, I did an Iron Man because I was training for a race that I never signed up for and it was just around the corner, and I didn't know it was coming. Well, why did I get cancer not once but twice? And look, in getting it twice, I'm like, geez, what didn't I learn the first time that I needed to, you know.

Chris 36:59

I know repeat this again, right?

Jeff 37:02

But you know, so so out of that, you know, it it forced me to kind of do that inventory and and to say, look, that journey of helping people is what gives me comfort and solace, you know, at at the end of it all, whether that end means retirement and I stay off into the sunset, enjoy the rest of my life, or my cancer comes back. You know, I I I have found peace with the way I've lived my life and and the things I've done. And, you know, I'm not one of those that believes that, well, look, everything happens for a reason. That's like a platitude that you see on a plaque. But I do I have been able to kind of make sense of, you know, the things that have happened into my life and understand how they all fit together, right up to and including, you know, my diagnosis formed a new identity for me as a as a cancer survivor who now helps other cancer survivors and people who are going through treatment. I always knew that I had a book inside me. I wouldn't have written a book if I didn't get hit with cancer twice. I have you and I wouldn't be talking today if it wasn't for my cancer diagnosis. So I look back at all of it and say, this is this is part of the journey, an important part of the journey. And the challenging parts of the journey are as important as the easier parts of the journey, if not more so.

Chris 38:22

Did like going through this experience, did it change the advice that you now give to others about hope and resilience?

Jeff 38:32

A little bit. You know, I always had that bounce back mentality, bounce forward mentality. So yeah, I think it deepened it a little bit. You know, it just in my own life, I've always counseled people, you know, that look, the the things, the hard things you get through become proof that you do hard things and you could just kind of build and stack on those successes and overcoming those challenges. And I've always been a big believer in that, you know, kids that that that go through rough childhoods become stronger adults if they get the right amount of support around those challenges. And, you know, in the case of cancer, you know, I, you know, part of my identity right now is right, look, as as an Iron Man triathlete and a two-time cancer survivor. You don't get you don't get tougher than that in a lot of regards. And I I wear it as a badge of honor, you know, I do a lot of public speaking about resilience and how to build your own resistance resilience. And you don't need cancer in order to do that. There are other ways of doing that, but I do talk with folks about, you know, there are ways to engage in deliberate discomfort in a way that will leave you stronger. And that doesn't mean you have to go run a marathon or do a triathlon. That could be something as simple as, you know, having a tough conversation with somebody you care about, making sure that you know you're giving yourself just a little bit of discomfort each day to help to help grow. That's where the growth comes. I went, you know, for a year, I did a cold shower challenge where I progressively increased the amount of time I spent taking cold showers. And as I did those cold showers, I did math problems in my mind as a way of you know building myself up to function under stress and just a little bit of discomfort in the morning.

Chris 40:24

How did that work out for you?

Jeff 40:26

It was fantastic, you know, it was energizing in so many ways. Like I, you know, I turned my friends on to this. There are apps that will help you track your time doing it. And I turned my friends on to this. It's great for muscle recovery, it's great for your emotional well-being because it gives you that adrenaline rush that you sometimes get in other ways. And so I think it's so helpful. But, you know, I like to map out like different challenges that I can do for myself. I did a 777-day running streak where I ran at least a mile a day and sometimes up to 20 miles a day. Wow. Every day. I didn't skip a day. There were days when, you know, I was traveling and I ran in airports. I looked like the crazy guy running through the airport. I did it when I cleaned the streak. There were times when I was at my kids' games and I ran in jeans. I stopped the car by the side of the road and said it's almost midnight. I need to run. And I ran in jeans and shoes. And so, you know, that's dedication.

Chris 41:29

That's dedication.

Jeff 41:30

Yeah, it's it's dedication, it's patterning, it's structure. And and so I've I've found a way to kind of capitalize on on a lot of this stuff and just kind of build my strength for whatever challenge comes next.

Chris 41:43

That's awesome. I love it. That is doing it 100% for sure. I want to talk about is your wife's name? Is it Jillian? Jillian, yeah. Gillian. So Gillian was with you for almost every single treatment appointment that was said, right? I want to ask you for couples facing serious illness, what advice would you give about being a caregiver versus being the patient?

Jeff 42:10

Yeah, I think the communication is absolutely critical. Gillian came to him to my medical appointments, which was really valuable in terms of having a second set of eyes and ears in the room. There were times when I would come home and say, Well, he said this, and she would say, he actually didn't. He said something completely different.

Chris 42:29

Um she gets you right, like that is not what was said. Okay. Right.

Jeff 42:33

That's what we have, right? And so as patients, you know, we we hear through that particular lens, and having someone, it's not completely objective, but a second set of eyes and ears in the room is absolutely beneficial.

Caregiving, Marriage, And Kids’ Questions

Jeff 42:48

It's also, you know, just you know, any kind of diagnosis is incredibly isolating. And so your ability to talk with your partner, I was very keyed into, well, she's going through stuff too, right? This is not only my journey.

Chris 43:01

I was about to say she's dealing yes because yeah, she's caregiving.

Jeff 43:10

You know, including the second time taking appointments, yeah, is this it? Am I gonna check out? You know, when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, we were dating like six months. Oh, wow. Look, you didn't sign up for this. And so if you need to tap out, I completely understand who said that to her.

Chris 43:31

Nice.

Jeff 43:32

Yeah, she's like, absolutely not. I'm not I'm not going anywhere. Wow, nice. So, you know, we we got through that, and then the second time around, you know, I I wasn't I wasn't offering to to let her tap out. And you know, we got married in in the middle of all of this. During the second time you got married? Yes, yeah. Okay. And so we, you know, we managed to sustain this and managed to get through it, but I think the communication was. Key. You know, when I was feeling down, when she was feeling down, we made sure that we were communicating. There were no secrets about kind of what I was going through and how I was managing it. And, you know, really we did it together. I don't think that's always the way it works. There are people who I know men who've been diagnosed with prostate cancer and they wait months to tell their spouse or their partner. Oh, and that's that's just that's not healthy, right? So that kind of stuff.

Chris 44:27

Yeah, because you're holding it in by yourself. That's a lot.

Jeff 44:29

Yeah, it's just it's it's a lot to carry. And so, you know, it deepened our relationship. And and I'd say, you know, my relationships across the board, I do, you know, encourage caregivers to take the time they need to process all of this with another person. It's not easy being the caregiver, it's not easy being the patient, right? And so our moods go up and down. There's easy days, there's light days. You know, I dealt with my treatment, you know, really with the sense of humor. I was like the guy on the, you know, on the chemo unit that made the jokes with the nurses and that kind of thing. But, you know, they understand, and pretty much anybody understands that you use a variety of mechanisms to get through what you're going through. And sometimes that's humor and denial, and sometimes it's it's other stuff. But generally it's it's it's not a straight line that patients have their ups and downs, and and so do caregivers. And, you know, ensuring that people who are walking the journey with a loved one have the appropriate support, access to information, you know, that kind of thing, and are included as part of the care if they want to be is is absolutely critical. But I I think this is actually harder on caregivers than it is on the patient. You know, just you know, I think caregivers struggle with a helplessness that we as patients don't necessarily feel in the same way.

Chris 45:54

I never thought about that. Never thought about that. Wow. I mean, hey, she might be able to write a book too. I'm I'm sure she's got a whole nother side of a story that, you know, I might have might be the second book. Every every mom matters too. Every second matter. For sure. Have you, I mean, as well as with your family, and you said you have children. How were they with all of this? Were they resilient as well? Were they able to, you know, put a positive foot forward as well that was happening for during this time?

Jeff 46:31

Yeah, I wouldn't say a positive foot forward. I would say they they navigated it very well.

Chris 46:38

Because they would have been younger, you said an adult and then a younger, like there's uh so they're gonna be a good one. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff 46:42

My so my my younger kids had had a hard time with this. You know, I think, you know, I didn't tell them anything until I had a plan in place because I didn't want to go and say, hey, dad is cancer or dad is cancer again without having a very, very concrete plan rolling. And so I was very intentional about the timing, very open about you know, questions they asked and and that kind of thing. I think there's always a fear, and for them, there was a fear that I was gonna die. I think so. I needed to be able to answer those questions, you know, as clearly and as honestly and openly as I could, because kids look for signs that you're not telling the truth, and they picked up on that in a heartbeat. So I was very open with my kids when you know they said, Are you gonna die? Well, we're all gonna die someday. I don't think today is my day. Access to the best medical care, and I was diagnosed early, and we have a treatment plan, and I will keep you in the loop as we move forward with this. But I think the timing was important. You know, it when when I got diagnosed the second time, I actually started chemo before I told my kids. My daughter had a birthday, we went to an amusement park. You know, there I am, we spent 16 hours in the amusement park. I'm taking chemo pills. I did infusions, you know, the second time around, but I'm hiding in the bathroom taking, you know, six chemo pills at a time, you know, and trying to muscle through an amusement park for 16 hours. And you know, I waited till after to tell her and that kind of thing. And so, you know, I think the timing is absolutely critical. Transparency is is absolutely important. Involving them and engaging them, you know, in the care is is all part of it. And so we navigated it, you know, really well. And you know, it's awesome to be able to share good news and say, you know, I'm in the clear, right? And so the treatment worked. Not everybody gets that, gets that privilege, but for me or that gift, and for me, you know, I'm able to say that the treatment worked. Then I will say I go now for quarterly scans and testing A to find out just to keep an eye on things, and then also as part of this clinical trial. And so, you know, it takes like two days worth of testing, and so they know when I'm going through the testing process. Okay, and so that puts everybody on edge a little bit. It's like being on the merry-go-round for 48 hours. So, you know, we get that quarterly, but like I said, that too is is a privilege. Not everybody gets that, gets that gift.

Chris 49:21

So true. Well, after surviving cancer and accomplishing so much professionally and personally, what does a meaningful life look like to Jeffrey Reynolds today?

Jeff 49:34

Yeah, I think a big part of it is you know, finding that gratitude, finding, you know, the gift of giving back to others. It's living your life in the here and now, the present. You know, one of the things about having cancer. And sometimes cancer survivors will say this I I care a little bit less about what people think and I go about my life my life, you know, in in a way where if I was taken out tomorrow, I'd be happy with the outcome. And so, you know, all the things in life that I wanted to do, whether it's writing a book or I went on a safari in South Africa last year. Nice, all of those things, like all the things you want to go to in life, and you say, Well, I'll get around to it someday, go do it because we don't really know when that last right, life can change

Meaningful Life And Where To Connect

Jeff 50:22

in in a heartbeat. And so when I say life could change in a heartbeat, it means that you know, the person you had a fight with five years ago and you refuse to pick up the phone, pick up the phone and call them. The the trip that you always wanted to go on, go on the damn trip. You know, find a way to you know, put together your bucket list of things you want to do, put together the list of folks that you want to get closer with or experiences that you want to have or ways that you want to feel, and find a way to get there because you don't know kind of what what comes next. And so for me, I found a way to live in in a way that it's much more present, that's much more genuine. My conversations with folks, particularly folks that that I talk to about cancer and survivorship, are a lot deeper than they ever were before.

Chris 51:09

I'm sure. I'm sure there's definitely more depth that you you can reach into for understanding. Yeah, I love it. I like to ask on my guests this final question. Is your glass half empty or half full?

Jeff 51:27

Oh, come on, that's a loaded question. Um, you know, look, my sense of gratitude is I'm just glad I have a glass. Okay, amen. On that. The water is the cherry on top. I'm just I'm just glad to have a glass. And so, you know, I I feel grateful for for each and every day. And, you know, I I've got some water in that glass, and I want to make sure that I make sure that I share it with all the people who who are just as thirsty as I am for the rest of life.

Chris 51:59

Oh, that's so good. You know, I always laugh. People come up with all kinds of answers for this question. It's so interesting about it. So that was so great. Yes, we are grateful to have a glass. For sure. Do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?

Jeff 52:17

No, look, I I appreciate you having me on. I appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my journey. My hope in sharing the journey is, and and honestly, my story is not so much about you know me. It's about how do I help other people change their story and the way they look at things and the way they they live their lives. And so, you know, I talk about this stuff in in hopes of you know just maybe connecting with one person in a way that that I wouldn't otherwise be able to. So I appreciate you you giving me this platform.

Chris 52:48

Yes, the pleasure is all mine. And you know, all we need to do is touch one person just to reach one, and the job is done. And so it's great that you are able to share, you have a story to share, um, and that you aren't afraid to share it. And I think that's really great. And a lot of people are suffering and going through lots of things, you know, outwardly, inwardly. And so being able to hear someone else's story and how that they have persevered through and that they are still continuing on just gives people a little bit of hope. And, you know, that's all we need is just a little bit, you know, to make it on. So thank you for coming on and sharing all of your amazing things that you've gone through and the things that will be coming still that are on the horizon for sure. Can you tell people I'm sorry, go ahead.

Jeff 53:36

My pleasure.

Chris 53:37

Yes, yes. Can you tell everyone how they can reach you if they want to find out more about you, if they want to take a look at your book, every mile matters. Where can we find you?

Jeff 53:47

Sure. Every mile matters is available on Amazon. I've also got my own website, jeffreerunnels.com. Book has a website, everymile matters.com, and I'm up on all the socials. Even as a 59-year-old guy, you can even find me on TikTok. And so Okay. Uh hey. TikTok, you know, you're I'm not even on TikTok. So go ahead on, Jeff. I I'm on all the socials usually at Dr. Jeffrey Reynolds.

Chris 54:14

And all of this will be underneath the the information for the podcast. So that way it's there just to click away. So no one has to feel like they're we know no one's writing things down today. So all your information will be there so that they can find it easily for sure. Thank you so much for being a guest here on Glass Half Full. We're so glad that we had you today.

Jeff 54:38

Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Chris 54:40

You are very welcome. Have a great uh morning and a great day ahead.

Jeff 54:46

Great you too.

Chris 54:47

Thank you. We'll talk to you real soon. Bye bye.